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i don't have that tax plan i had for the last two years. you going to believe me or your lying eyes here? come on. >> in the final weeks of the campaign, the obama campaign may want to use a little more of the big dog and a little less of big bird, you might say. anyway, msnbc political panelist eugene robinson is with "the washington post" and cynthia turk is visiting. cynthia, it always brings our spirits up seeing bill in action. he finds the joy in it. in that this guy is a bit of a con artist and he's reinvented the whole massachusetts governor for the purpose of 90 minutes. and whenever's anyone's really listening in the big crowd, he reverts to the old bad stuff the minute nobody's looking. >> and chris, he explains all that in terms that people understood. he does it with a smile on his face. he doesn't seem in any way mean or harsh or vindictive. he seems funny, which he is. it's also clear that bill clinton is having a really good time. he enjoys being on the campaign trail. he enjoys politics in a way that i don't think that pres
i don't have that tax plan i had for the last two years. you going to believe me or your lying eyes here? come on. >> in the final weeks of the campaign, the obama campaign may want to use a little more of the big dog and a little less of big bird, you might say. anyway, msnbc political panelist eugene robinson is with "the washington post" and cynthia turk is visiting. cynthia, it always brings our spirits up seeing bill in action. he finds the joy in it. in that this guy is a...
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i don't have that tax plan. you want to believe me, your lying eyes here. come on. >> the obama campaign wants to use more of the big dog and less of big bird, you might say. cynthia tucker is from the university of georgia. cynthia, it always brings our spirits up to see bill clinton. he finds that this guy is a bit of a con artist and he's reinvested the old massachusetts governor for the purpose of 90 minutes and reversed to the old bad stuff, the minute that nobody is really looking. >> and, chris, he explains all that in terms that people understand. he does it with a smile on his face. he doesn't seem in any way mean or harsh or vindictive. he seems funny, which is -- it's also clear that bill clinton is having a good time. he enjoys being on the campaign trail. he enjoys politics in a way that i don't think president obama does. and this gives him a great excuse for the first time in four years to be out with political crowds which he loves. and he's having a great time doing it. >> i think that the president doesn't know that there's music in politi
i don't have that tax plan. you want to believe me, your lying eyes here. come on. >> the obama campaign wants to use more of the big dog and less of big bird, you might say. cynthia tucker is from the university of georgia. cynthia, it always brings our spirits up to see bill clinton. he finds that this guy is a bit of a con artist and he's reinvested the old massachusetts governor for the purpose of 90 minutes and reversed to the old bad stuff, the minute that nobody is really looking....
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there aren't enough tax loopholes or tax deductions to pay for romney's tax cut unless you cut into home interest mortgage deductions, unless you get rid of state and local taxes. that will hit the middle class hard. you have to be honest about this. the debate hurt obama and helped romney, and romney's gotten a bump in the polls, although it seems to be flattening out. you look at the new poll in ohio, the president is at 51%, romney is at 47%. i think the president, the fundamental structure of the race hasn't been changed, but if he doesn't go on the attack, if biden doesn't do a good job against ryan, and if the president doesn't show up and isn't strong in the second debate, then you're going to have a tossup race. >> well, i would disagree with your approach, first of all. i don't approach it that way. that's going back and relegating all the old arguments. in spirit what i would do, unlike shrumy, i would take the big issue that is separating the candidates, don't get into the little trench warfare about what's your tax plan and where were you on medicare two weeks ago. i would sa
there aren't enough tax loopholes or tax deductions to pay for romney's tax cut unless you cut into home interest mortgage deductions, unless you get rid of state and local taxes. that will hit the middle class hard. you have to be honest about this. the debate hurt obama and helped romney, and romney's gotten a bump in the polls, although it seems to be flattening out. you look at the new poll in ohio, the president is at 51%, romney is at 47%. i think the president, the fundamental structure...
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all the old argument, how much of his tax deductions cover his tax deductions. boring. >> it's got to be about where are the mortgage -- where are the tax deductions you're going to get rid of, for example, on taxes? i think that's important for -- >> they won't tell you. >> then they've got to say -- >> he's already said he's not going to -- >> the other big thing is medicare. >> grandma on that bus searching around town trying to -- >> that's what i want to know. 80-year-old grandma on a bus to buy anything let alone to get a health insurance program that meets her budget given to her by paul ryan. >> and i agree with you also, chris. if they talk about the tax thing too much in the context of deficit reduction, it doesn't help them because that's not the president's strongest turf. >> i know i ask you all of the great questions because you're a great reporter. it sounds like you're saying that the vice president will not go for the kill. he won't nail them on the 47%, nail them on vouchers, nail him on the emergency rooms. will he do that? >> no. look, i had
all the old argument, how much of his tax deductions cover his tax deductions. boring. >> it's got to be about where are the mortgage -- where are the tax deductions you're going to get rid of, for example, on taxes? i think that's important for -- >> they won't tell you. >> then they've got to say -- >> he's already said he's not going to -- >> the other big thing is medicare. >> grandma on that bus searching around town trying to -- >> that's what i...
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i don't have a tax cut that's $4.8 trillion or $5 trillion. i'm not going to cut taxes on the rich. i don't have a medicare voucher plan. i love teachers, i think we need more of them. i mean, look, don't believe me, speaker gingrich was pretty eloquent in running during the primaries in saying, look, mitt romney will say absolutely anything to get elected. >> well, one thing i have been saying about the campaign is the president needs surrogates out there, he needs confederates, people out there. i love charleston. a lot of people -- rather charlotte because in charlotte you heard an entire political party speaking led by people like deval patrick, the governor of massachusetts, after you saw mr. mayor. i think it sounds better when it's a serenade than when it's a solo. what do you think about that? because the other guy has these terrible attack dogs out there, people like trump pitching the birtherism nonsense, sununu talking about being lazy. you got priebus and his nonsense about him being from europe and foreign and newt saying terrible things not to mention jack welch trying
i don't have a tax cut that's $4.8 trillion or $5 trillion. i'm not going to cut taxes on the rich. i don't have a medicare voucher plan. i love teachers, i think we need more of them. i mean, look, don't believe me, speaker gingrich was pretty eloquent in running during the primaries in saying, look, mitt romney will say absolutely anything to get elected. >> well, one thing i have been saying about the campaign is the president needs surrogates out there, he needs confederates, people...
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they may more effective tax than governor romney pays in his federal incomes tax. i have had it up to here with this notion that 47% -- it's about time they take some responsibility here, and instead of signing pledges to grover norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field. >> joe klein, that's a winning riff from my account. the way he pronounced grover norquist is the way i pronounce with a "d" in it, it's like complete disdain for -- >> i think he won the debate at that moment. you know what distinguished that from almost everything else we see in these debates? it was real. that wasn't political talk. that wasn't focus group talk. that wasn't consultant talk. that was just joe. >> okay. there are a number of moments in the debate when paul ryan seemed to be playing defense against biden's attacks. here were the two candidates squaring off on the romney tax plan which remains impossible to defend in terms of mathematics.
they may more effective tax than governor romney pays in his federal incomes tax. i have had it up to here with this notion that 47% -- it's about time they take some responsibility here, and instead of signing pledges to grover norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field. >> joe klein, that's a winning riff from my account. the way he pronounced...
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massive tax increase. romney cannot defend this plan on its merits, so he simply says i'll negotiate this with congress. it doesn't matter what he negotiates, there's not enough money there. it's a simple matter of arithmetic. but he's being a smooth liar about this. >> is the mathematics policy? can you offset $5 trillion with big deductions by getting rid of them when he said tonight to accomplicer, i'm going to leave the mortgage preference, the charitable preference, what is left? >> first off, you're kind of misquoting what he said. number one, he said it's not a $5 trillion dr. >> 4.8. >> but it is. i don't care what he says, he's lying. it is $5 trillion. >> bob, let me make mire point. >> don't repeat his lie without any evidence. >> i'm not repeating it. the fact you call it a lie, you take that up with him. >> no, he's the one who's lying. >> let me make the point. how does it not -- >> the fact of the matter is he's identified that what he's going to do is limply fill the tax code in a number of
massive tax increase. romney cannot defend this plan on its merits, so he simply says i'll negotiate this with congress. it doesn't matter what he negotiates, there's not enough money there. it's a simple matter of arithmetic. but he's being a smooth liar about this. >> is the mathematics policy? can you offset $5 trillion with big deductions by getting rid of them when he said tonight to accomplicer, i'm going to leave the mortgage preference, the charitable preference, what is left?...
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if biden can get ryan down into the weeds of is the tax cut plan $5 trillion or $3 trillion and how about entitlements, then biden will -- >> i have sort of a stupid person's guide to how i'm going to do it tonight. i'm going to be really dumb. i'm going to count the times i hear voucher in an hour and a half. if i hear it four or five times, i will say biden is doing pretty good. how many times the phrase personhood is used, two or three. it better come up. the phrase 47%. i'd like -- how about the word bankrupt automobile industry. >> auto. >> these phrases to me were what the president, michael, as a debater failed to do. bring up the topics because topics drives winners. if you're talking about the area the guy is embarrassed about, talking about something that makes you look good, you win. >> exactly. >> he didn't seem to win on that basis. >> he didn't win on that basis because the president was some place other than that debate. >> he was waiting for jim lehrer to bring it up and it's not the format. >> and i think john is exactly right in his conversation with the vice president,
if biden can get ryan down into the weeds of is the tax cut plan $5 trillion or $3 trillion and how about entitlements, then biden will -- >> i have sort of a stupid person's guide to how i'm going to do it tonight. i'm going to be really dumb. i'm going to count the times i hear voucher in an hour and a half. if i hear it four or five times, i will say biden is doing pretty good. how many times the phrase personhood is used, two or three. it better come up. the phrase 47%. i'd like --...